Horses for Cops

[BB360]

Warning: This suggestion will most likely only be appreciated by players that cop. Please save your toxicity about how you got caught with a full inventory of /kit drugs by a cop on a horse for yourself.

The request is simple (in theory), can we go back to having horses not despawn when cops do /duty. On the old map that was such a saving grace because DC'ing was a cops worst nightmare since his inventory doesn't get saved when he logs off the same way mule inventory does. I understand that it is probably impossible to ask for cops to have a saved inventory similar to mules since the two systems run on different plugins, but can we at least go back to whatever settings allowed Cops to spawn a horse, ride it, than do /duty on its back?

This suggestion is very personal to me as I suffer from unreliable internet in my state so I DC more than I actually get to play, and the prospect of buying a 3-6 million dollar horse, then lose it because of bad internet with no hope of refunding makes it impossible for guys like me to benefit from the horse option in spawn. There are many alternatives and possible loopholes that would accomplish what I am describing, but this one is something that has been tested and proven to work so I save those theoretical solutions for the case that this suggestion ultimately doesn't work (that way I am not boring you through 3 pages of just raw text).

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely, the cop that frisked you and took all your /kit drugs you pathetic nub

 

[Dakotaa]

I'm very interested in having horses be saved for the player, so they can spawn their horse with a command and not require an actual item that can be lost, but the developers of the plugin we use have not been active. I may look into getting a custom horse plugin made.

 

[BB360]

I was actually wondering if you could do something similar with the animals that were summonable by using items (I don't know the plug-in but there was something that allowed you to spawn wovles with bones and skeleton horses).
The idea would be now that saddles are accessible by fishing, you could (assuming you have the plug-in) allow horses to he summoned using a specific noncraftable item and have it only be buyable at /shop (similar to hoppers) (I would suggest horse armor since it is already uncraftable so it should be easier to implement into a plug-in) that way people can "rent a horse".

And yes summonable horses would be amazing, but that means more work for you and longer time till implementation, if at all should the option turn out to be impossible.

Nonetheless thank you for responding. I can't wait to see how you guys decide to go about this.

 

[BB360]

(I would suggest horse armor since it is already uncraftable so it should be easier to implement into a plug-in) that way people can "rent a horse".
QUOTE]

Or if you really want to spoil us and the plug-in works, make the summonable item a stack of apples. That way even cops have a legitimate reason to make bases and farms so they can plant trees and get apples for horse summoning.

 

[NovaSeepa]

I like your suggestion overall. As annoying as it is to get frisked, cops are an important part of the game mode and the potential of losing your horse to something out of your control is very discouraging to players who would like to play cop. That being said, horses are and should be difficult to obtain and level. Horses are a luxury to both cops and drug players, not a necessity. In my opinion, turning them into spawnable items doesn't make a lot of sense. For drug players there can be advantages to running without a horse, especially if using invis potions, but what you're talking about means there will likely never be situations where cops are not on horses, meaning all the drug players will also have to use horses to compete. Like the saying "if everyone's special then no one is". I appreciate where the idea is coming from, but I think it will impact the game play in a negative way.

 

[BB360]

For drug players there can be advantages to running without a horse, especially if using invis potions, but what you're talking about means there will likely never be situations where cops are not on horses, meaning all the drug players will also have to use horses to compete. Like the saying "if everyone's special then no one is". I appreciate where the idea is coming from, but I think it will impact the game play in a negative way.

You do make a very valid point, if everyone can get horses, even if the cost is "outlandish" (i am saying upward of 100k per rent) then invis and speed potions won't be AS valuable. No offense to you, but to play devil's advocate, invis and speed potions are an advantage that druggies have that cops don't (you have already seen the toxicity over using a permitted texture pack to make the particles easier to see). And even while on the horse, invis potions aren't that easily detectable. Druggies, with or without horses have an infinite number of routes and options to get to the drug houses, cops have a few finite choke points and that's it. The horse is more essential to the cop because he can't cover all the choke points despite his opponent having infinite reign on how to get there. Also, if the horse rent costs that much, the only real time a cop would pay for one is if it was a booster (which come on, not really fair that a whole server can sell it's drugs versus 2-4 cops that are running on foot without any assists) or if the cop plans on running a long shift. It also gives druggies an option to try horses as well. If cops have a more accessible, as well as stable means of reinforcing their movement, the sales for invis potions will only increase, not decrease as invis is the ace in the hole for druggies versus any nonhacking cop. In my mind I guess I am trying to give cops a better chance against the infinite number of advantages druggies have, not including the steady revenue versus the sporadic nature of cop revenue.

I do very much respect your point though and I acknowledge it fully, but I am just arguing that it wouldn't be as much of a slippery slope as you paint it out to be.

 

[Puppy_Killer]

Maybe an idea for a cop rank would be a type of duty other than the normal one (like /swat) that gives a horse, or something to ride that is somewhat faster than sprinting, but also a small disadvantage to make it not way too op

 

[BB360]

as much as I would love the idea, there are too many liability issues, assuming that the saddles for these horses can be thrown on the ground like the steak (thus sold and handed out indefinitely). Also that means cops would never have a level'd horse because everytime you get off duty the horse loses its levels which would be more of a disadvantage than an advantage when the server gets past its first few months.

 

[NovaSeepa]

This is very long so I'm gonna preface this with all of this is simply my opinion, and I don't think the cop system is perfect. There's always room for improvement, I just think what you're suggesting is not necessarily the best improvement that can be made to cops. I liked Dakota's thoughts on having a horse command and feel like it would address the original issue in your post, which I do believe is an issue. This is just regarding your proposed fixes.

I see where you're coming from, but I think there is a misconception here.

Druggies, with or without horses have an infinite number of routes and options to get to the drug houses, cops have a few finite choke points and that's it. The horse is more essential to the cop because he can't cover all the choke points despite his opponent having infinite reign on how to get there.

Cops aren't meant to be able to cover all the choke points by themselves. Druggies still need to be able to sell drugs. You're not meant to be able to catch everyone, just as druggies aren't meant to be able to sell every time with ease. In most cases it will come down to skill and luck for both druggies and cops. Camping the correct spots and adjusting your patrol routes, meaning druggies have to adapt to that on the fly. As for what you said about druggies having infinite routes, there is nowhere between spawn and the drug sellers that druggies can go that cops cannot. There are certainly optimal places to camp for cops, but you're not restricted.

I personally see many cops always camping the same 4-5 spots. Myself and many other players have already learned to avoid those spots. You need to adapt the same way druggies need to adapt their routes to try and avoid cops. Just yesterday I saw a player get frisked on a T3 horse simply because a cop picked a good spot to intercept. I myself was frisked by a cop while on my horse who did the same in a different spot, and then he very nearly got me again on my next run because he changed his camping spot slightly. He adapted. Once a cop is in range of a player with drugs they can take the drugs instantly (except in cases where the cop misses), and there are lots of ways to make that happen. Many of my faction members play cop (they don't avoid frisking me. They actively try.) and most of the time in TS they talk about how easy they're catching people, even without horses.

Also, if the horse rent costs that much, the only real time a cop would pay for one is if it was a booster (which come on, not really fair that a whole server can sell it's drugs versus 2-4 cops that are running on foot without any assists) or if the cop plans on running a long shift.

I think this point is really blown out of proportion. Very few players have horses currently and many still don't use potions of any kind while selling, so it's not "the whole server" selling with no hope for the cops to catch them. During a booster there is also a higher volume of cops online, making it difficult for druggies to sell already. It only takes one decent cop on a horse to shut down plenty of druggies who are on foot, but a good cop without a horse (of which there are many) will still make lots of money (proven by my horseless faction members).

Lastly, your point about all cops having horses will increase the sale of invisibility potions is probably correct, but not the advantage you are making it out to be. Certainly not an "ace in the hole". While invis your particles are visible, so even if you are walking to avoid giving away your location with running particles a cop can still find you. If you're looking for the particles they are easy to spot, even without texture packs. A cop on a horse could not only see the invis particles, but they could then catch up to that player quickly and attempt to frisk them. If the player wants to get away from that they need to hope their potion particles don't show while they're walking around the cop, or they need to start running which shows their location even more clearly with the running particles.

It will always be inherently more difficult to play cop because their income depends on players selling at the time instead of "on demand" money that druggies can get with farms. That fact alone doesn't mean that we shouldn't make suggestions and try to improve the system, but there's a difference between improving the system and making it game breaking. Balancing gameplay isn't just about buffing different aspects, sometimes things need to be nerfed too. Making horses much more difficult to obtain (doubling the price from last map) and making them take so much longer to level was the nerf that was decided on.

 

[BB360]

I will acknowledge all your points. The rentable horse was only meant to be a quick fix since it doesn't seem that a custom plugin will be created soon. Ideally yes, a player command to spawn a horse he or she has bought would be awesome, but I am a pessimist.

I admit I still think your entire argument tilts more in the favor of a druggy, as is the trend of the the systems, but giving it further thought, if the cop job was set to be equal to druggies, the over saturation of cops would not only deter the druggies whose business would stop, but other cops would have to fight each other to get the few druggies left. So in conclusion I agree with you points, all of them. Sooooo......Dakotaa please look into that summonable horse plugin

 

[SirLawrenceIV]

I agree with the option of having a horse as a command. Because since horses cost so much money, it's kind of not worth buying one since if anyone kills you you lose it. That's 6 mil down the drain. Not everyone has 6 mil to replace their horse whenever they get killed. Especially since prison is a war zone and I'd imagine most would be afraid to run prison with their horse on them.

I also personally don't think that cops should be allowed to have horses. But if they are allowed to use horses as police. Then I think that they should cost police waaaaay more money than dealers. Advantage of running is set toward dealers already since cops aren't allowed to put speed potions and dealers are. But if cops can have horses with the same speed or pay the same cost kind of negates that advantage. Maybe police can be restricted from tier 3 horses. So dealers still have that little bit of advantage. Just a thought.

 

[NovaSeepa]

I also personally don't think that cops should be allowed to have horses. But if they are allowed to use horses as police. Then I think that they should cost police waaaaay more money than dealers. Advantage of running is set toward dealers already since cops aren't allowed to put speed potions and dealers are. But if cops can have horses with the same speed or pay the same cost kind of negates that advantage. Maybe police can be restricted from tier 3 horses. So dealers still have that little bit of advantage. Just a thought.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Cop players already have a more difficult time making money than regular players. 6 mil to a druggie can be farmed up fairly quickly with a decent farm, whereas cops are already at a disadvantage when it comes to the drug aspect of the server. It's harder to make money, and even if they are frisking people there is no guarantee they will get drugs that are actually valuable.

There is no need to make playing cop more difficult. My argument above is more about trying to keep gameplay balanced, but your suggestion is blatantly geared towards drug players, and we don't need more advantages for drug selling. We already have that with faster money generation and potions to outrun the cops on foot. Horses are a luxury for both cops and druggies and not everyone will get them, but if you want to restrict cops from getting T3 horses then that is blatant favoritism for drug players, and would be incredibly discouraging for cop players knowing that all the effort they could put in would still not put them on par with drug players.

It's annoying to lose your drugs, but the gamemode is dependent on cop players. The goal here is to make playing cop fun for those who choose to do it.

 

[BB360]

I wholeheartedly disagree. Cop players already have a more difficult time making money than regular players. 6 mil to a druggie can be farmed up fairly quickly with a decent farm, whereas cops are already at a disadvantage when it comes to the drug aspect of the server. It's harder to make money, and even if they are frisking people there is no guarantee they will get drugs that are actually valuable.

There is no need to make playing cop more difficult. My argument above is more about trying to keep gameplay balanced, but your suggestion is blatantly geared towards drug players, and we don't need more advantages for drug selling. We already have that with faster money generation and potions to outrun the cops on foot. Horses are a luxury for both cops and druggies and not everyone will get them, but if you want to restrict cops from getting T3 horses then that is blatant favoritism for drug players, and would be incredibly discouraging for cop players knowing that all the effort they could put in would still not put them on par with drug players.

It's annoying to lose your drugs, but the gamemode is dependent on cop players. The goal here is to make playing cop fun for those who choose to do it.

 

[Zhihu]

I'm not reading these bullshit paragraphs but I support a command horse spawn, I've lost a Tier 2 Max horse and about 5 tier 3 mules from either crashing or forgetting to put it away. 8mil$+ worth of horses.