Cop situation...

[CodGlitchesHD]

As people are well aware I think the current state of cops is a HUGE problem in MCD and it's just getting worse. Maybe it only applies to the high end players/people who are farming a lot as I've seen quite a few people in chat say "oh it's easy just use pots ect" when they're not even prestige so realistically they're most likely dealing with maybe 10 invs a day, if that. It just feels like with the current system, we're being punished for playing a lot and having more drugs which is honestly such a shit feeling. Especially as someone who loves playing here and spends pretty much all my time when I'm not sleeping online. I want the best for the server but with the current situation it's making it really hard to enjoy playing. I think the idea that someone can play the server for 1 hour and become a cop is completely insane as cops have so much power when it comes to preventing people selling. It didn't used to be this bad but as time went on I think it had more of a snowball effect and as more people got fucked by cops they decided "oh I might as well become one" and now we usually have ~5+ on all the time. Another reason we might have so many cops could be due to the fact that people get raided easily in farm world since tunneling has became more popular and is easily accessible with no risk. You could also xray/esp someone's base and just go 3k+ blocks away and tunnel and nobody would be any the wiser, it would be instantly dismissed. (not endorsing but just saying I'm sure this would have happened a few times)

The selling area is a great concept but I think it wasn't executed as good as it could have been. I think if it was more horizontal, less vertical and a bit more open it would be a lot better. The fact that it relies so much on ladders for the better dealers automatically makes it near impossible to avoid being caught in that situation since there's no counter play to someone sneaking at the top of a ladder that you don't even know is there. I think with the amount of cops, having another selling area in a different direction would make it a lot better since you at least have much more of a chance. I know there's prison but I mean an actual different selling block however I understand this would take time and a lot of work.

On my thread of suggestions for this map I even suggested not being able to enroll as cop until a higher rank which I still think should be a thing. I think at least getting to drug baron would be a fair rank for this as it at least ensures the player put in some effort before being able to go easy mode and ruin the experience for others. Maybe even have an enrolling fee of like $1m? I'm quite curious of the thought process on why you guys think people should be able to put in minimal effort and be rewarded by making it aids for people to sell that are putting in significantly more time and effort? like no flame I'm legit curious cause to me it's crazy.

I think providing some other alternatives for cops to make money could help clear out spawn too e.g. let them grow specific drugs and they could have their own custom cop crafting recipes. Add fishing NPCs to the lake next to the museum so they can do that without having to go to Africa just to sell or maybe even just buff the fishing prices so people actually want to go out of their way to fish (I know the jobs plugin being broken affects that a lot) Any other suggestions are welcome.

The last point is feeling forced into selling during specific time windows. I know Dakota said we're not "forced" but I think selling at any time when there's a fair few cops on (maybe 4+) is deleting our drugs for no reason. If not deleting it's still pretty inefficient since the time spent trying to sell is significantly longer than if there was 2. (Especially when dealing with large quantities). You're also kinda soft restricted because you most likely have to sell your drugs before the price changes unless you want to suffer quite a loss. This falls under the same feeling as booster meta in which you just save all your drugs to sell during a specific time instead of selling when you feel like it which I find to be shit gameplay. People also use the argument "oh it would be boring with not many cops" but legit nobody goes out of their way to sell when there's max cops on for the fun of it, all top players sell when their is a minimal risk to lose their drugs.

I understand there can't be a situation where cops are removed because yous have spent a lot of time building the system and I know it's a fundamental part of the server. I'm mainly hoping you understand where I'm coming from and why I think there needs to be some changes to keep the server enjoyable so players that invest a lot of time into farming don't feel like they're being fucked by players who invest nothing. I'm not just complaining for the sake of it like this has been something I've thought about for a while.

Ty for reading my rant, I know I probs care a bit too much but ye w/e

 

[Dakotaa]

As people are well aware I think the current state of cops is a HUGE problem in MCD and it's just getting worse.

A huge problem in your opinion. I honestly haven't seen any players complaining about cops to the extent that you have today, other than the baseline "oh yeah they're annoying" that comes up in chat every now and then, usually by people who have just been caught with drugs and are venting their anger or frustration.

Maybe it only applies to the high end players/people who are farming a lot as I've seen quite a few people in chat say "oh it's easy just use pots ect" when they're not even prestige so realistically they're most likely dealing with maybe 10 invs a day, if that. It just feels like with the current system, we're being punished for playing a lot and having more drugs which is honestly such a shit feeling.

Which is why your ability to sell large volumes of drugs scales as you rankup, through the Mule system. I'm aware of the current issues with mule functionality between Farm/Spawn worlds, but if you spend some time to move all your drugs to a vault in the main world, then mule them from their, it is not an issue at all. We grant the ability to post more mule jobs as you rank up, because naturally you will have more drugs the higher the rank you are. Sure, it will cut into your profits by 10-20%, but it also saves you a ton of time that you would otherwise be spending selling those dozens of inventory of drugs by yourself, whether or not there were police. Distributing your drugs and delegating other players (which you know have a good reputation and ability to sell them) to sell your drugs for you also allows you to avoid jailtime and having to worry about the entire process of selling, which I'm sure the best mules will be very good at. Sure police might still pose an issue to the mules selling your drugs, but you can probably farm another inventory in the time that the mule is taking your place in jail. Police are also likely to see a high-rank player as a good target, and getting mules to sell your drugs makes them less likely to get arrested.

If, as you say, you spend all day playing, you're of course going to have much more drugs to sell than the average player. It's a bit ridiculous to complain about it when you have a system like muling at your disposal, which we intend to be used by people in your exact situation.

The selling area is a great concept but I think it wasn't executed as good as it could have been. I think if it was more horizontal, less vertical and a bit more open it would be a lot better. The fact that it relies so much on ladders for the better dealers automatically makes it near impossible to avoid being caught in that situation since there's no counter play to someone sneaking at the top of a ladder that you don't even know is there.

Every drug selling room has at least two entrances, and as a legacy donator, you have several different options for selling. If you're worried about police jumping out and surprising you, good - that's exactly our intention. Make a dry run to scout for police (they usually hide in one spot for a while), send another player slightly ahead of you with a few drugs to get any cops that are hiding into a cooldown, or something similar, and this won't be an issue.

the idea that someone can play the server for 1 hour and become a cop is completely insane as cops have so much power when it comes to preventing people selling.

On my thread of suggestions for this map I even suggested not being able to enroll as cop until a higher rank which I still think should be a thing. I think at least getting to drug baron would be a fair rank for this as it at least ensures the player put in some effort before being able to go easy mode and ruin the experience for others. Maybe even have an enrolling fee of like $1m?

In my opinion, the current rank for enrolling into police is fine. Most players at the Smuggler level don't have the same experience and knowledge about the server as a higher-ranked player, meaning they're not going to be as useful as police. I've seen very many police that are outright bad at it (e.g. sitting directly in front of spawn). Sure, when players can enroll at Smuggler, there's going to be a lot more players enrolling than if the requirement was higher, but these are mostly unskilled players, and a lot of them resign soon anyway. A few decent cops will do much better than several new players who just enrolled. Furthermore, if we raised the rank required, or required a fee to enroll, there would be too few police. Players at a higher rank have invested much more into the druggie role - ranks, building and maintaining farms, etc - and would be much less likely to become a cop. This would also mean that the new, unskilled players mentioned above could not become cop, and these players create a lot of the fun and interesting moments in selling drugs, as they are usually pretty bad at catching people, but create the feeling of a real threat or pursuit.

I think providing some other alternatives for cops to make money could help clear out spawn too e.g. let them grow specific drugs and they could have their own custom cop crafting recipes.

Police already can make money in every other way that druggies can, besides growing drugs. We have no intention of allowing police to grow any kind of drug, because then they'd just become druggies with extra abilities, and I don't really see the logic in that. If police have more fun and make more money arresting people rather than using other methods of making money, I'm satisfied. Making playing as a cop be actually interesting and engaging is something we've been working on and improving for multiple maps. It's a bit unreasonable to say that, just because they pose a threat to you (as they are intended to), they should go do something else.

The last point is feeling forced into selling during specific time windows. I know Dakota said we're not "forced" but I think selling at any time when there's a fair few cops on (maybe 4+) is deleting our drugs for no reason. (Especially when dealing with large quantities)

Once again, the mule system is right there, ready for you to use, which would clear up all of these problems.

You're also kinda soft restricted because you most likely have to sell your drugs before the price changes unless you want to suffer quite a loss. This falls under the same feeling as booster meta in which you just save all your drugs to sell during a specific time instead of selling when you feel like it which I find to be shit gameplay.

Which is exactly the intention of doing weekly drug price changes - you're going to have to get those drugs sold if you think that they're about to go down in price. I don't see how this is a bad thing, if a drug price goes down, it's because a lot of that drug is being sold proportional to other drugs. It creates a sense of urgency and prevents the drug "meta" from becoming stale. With boosters, you're not being forced to sell during a booster. The player who paid for the booster is free to activate them when they want - if they want to do it in the middle of the night, that's their choice.



Police have been a feature of MCDrugs for several years now, and I'd say it's one of the aspects that most greatly adds to the server's unique identity. I'd say we have the most fleshed-out and amusing police system of any drug server. I'd say that police have been greatly underpowered until this map, when we developed the opportunities to give them things like speed boosts, frisk cooldowns, and the ability to temporarily see nearby invisible players.

Bottom line, I think police are in a good place at the moment, and the fact that you are max rank makes it clear that you must have not had this much of an issue selling drugs. Use the mule system, it's intended for people in your exact situation.

 

[CodGlitchesHD]

I get that you want people to use the mule system more and even though I do prefer selling my own shit since I have more confidence in me selling than randoms that I have no control over, I've actually used the mule system quite a bit this map. Unless muling when there's pretty much no cops, you're gonna take a pretty big hit in profit due to the fact that there's no customization for things such as the rep requirement for auto accept which is way too low by default imo, you can't blacklist/whitelist certain people who consistently fail/succeed and maybe if there was an insurance you could set at higher ranks that increases as you advance in prestige? so if people fail you get a certain amount paid to you from them so you're at least guaranteed something. I've had good experiences with muling but these past few weeks there has been a significant increase in cops I feel and it just hasn't really been a viable option that I'm comfortable with.

In my opinion, the current rank for enrolling into police is fine. Most players at the Smuggler level don't have the same experience and knowledge about the server as a higher-ranked player, meaning they're not going to be as useful as police. I've seen very many police that are outright bad at it (e.g. sitting directly in front of spawn). Sure, when players can enroll at Smuggler, there's going to be a lot more players enrolling than if the requirement was higher, but these are mostly unskilled players, and a lot of them resign soon anyway. A few decent cops will do much better than several new players who just enrolled.

I don't think it matters too much since there's not a huge skillcap on right clicking someone, ofc I know there are full braindead bot cops that do nothing but they're still annoying since it's still 1 lucky right click for them to fuck you. At least with fewer cops we have a better chance of avoiding them with different timezones and it's actually people who wanna be a cop and not just clowns who are too lazy to farm. It also benefits the people that actually want to be cops since they have a lot more potential to make money. Today when I was going around spawn there was legit 8 cops like wtf.

We have no intention of allowing police to grow any kind of drug, because then they'd just become druggies with extra abilities, and I don't really see the logic in that.

Yeah I mean that was just a random idea but the general thought process was just to give them something else to keep them entertained so at least during dead time zones we could potentially invis sell while they do other shit instead of waiting around spawn just in case someone was selling.

the fact that you are max rank makes it clear that you must have not had this much of an issue selling drugs. Use the mule system, it's intended for people in your exact situation.

That's true that I haven't really had that much of an issue in the past, in carrot/potato weeks I've sold like 2600 invs total with help of some mules and it wasn't much of a problem until recently, If I had to try and sell all them now I'd probably get about ~1700 of them sold or less. I have I think 21 hours on a horse which was going fine for selling until people figured out the routes and realised to just sit there, ye I know I can go other dealers faster on horses when I realise someone is camping but getting caught once also wastes 4 mins of your horse which is kinda annoying so it was only rly worth using when I could get away with it semi-freely which like I said was a lot easier than it currently is now.

Maybe I only have such strong opinions on it because of the amount of invs I had to sell of potato/carrots but I pretty much had to due to the prices. Maybe if you set a hardcap on certain drugs to stop them ever being op then I'd wanna farm other things but I didn't really see a reason farming anything else when I could make like ~3m+ a day from them off booster.

Luckily I don't care about boosters anymore since from what I've heard it's a shitshow with horses but during the race you pretty much have to only sell on boosters or you've lost. I can't imagine what it'll be like when the first cop gets their permanent horse and how many complaints there will be.

 

[StopTakingUsernames]

I do back cod on this issue, I reckon the enrolment rank required for cop should be bumped up to maybe producer or something, because it is honestly annoying with the sheer amount of cops around.

 

[Tzunami_]

I don't think vanilla police are overtuned, with speed pots, invis and a decent route you can easily sell even with 5+ online. However, I do believe having cops with horses is a bit overtuned, especially since there is such a large open area you need to run through before you can hide, nullifying invis. I would like to see the price of renting a horse increased for cops or make horses slightly faster for players. Even players with horses get caught frequently, as evidence by the 1 hour booster last weekend. Even if both you and the cop are running at the same speed eventually you will need to exit your horse when entering the slums, giving them time to frisk you. Since you can't be invis when on a horse it is basically a death trap.

Also, although mosrt of Dakotaa's arguments are true and make sense, I don't understand why there are so many cops specifically this map. Last map I remember there being cops and being frisked occasionally, but it was possible to get by and outplay. This map seems exponentially harder, I don't understand why. That is probably leading to many more people enrolling, compounding the problem.

Last weekend two different cops were able to make well over 2 mil each in 1 single hour, that seems unfounded and unbalanced. Had they not had horses, or had their horses been a little slower, that wouldn't have been the case.

 

[krom]

as one of my fellow cultists pointed out: the problem is the selling area itself. compared to past maps, it's horrible, to speak frankly. cops can just sit on strategically important spots and hold down right click, making speed, invisibility and ever other precaution redundant.
i am well aware that there is quite an amount of dealers but there is also quite an amount of cops. at peak times they are able to cover the whole area without significant effort.

 

[Dakotaa]

as one of my fellow cultists pointed out: the problem is the selling area itself. compared to past maps, it's horrible, to speak frankly. cops can just sit on strategically important spots and hold down right click, making speed, invisibility and ever other precaution redundant.
i am well aware that there is quite an amount of dealers but there is also quite an amount of cops. at peak times they are able to cover the whole area without significant effort.

The main selling room alone has four doors, it's rare that there's ever a cop camping each door. Paired with the fact that there's thousands of possible routes through the drug slums, compared to the fewer and more open routes in the drug selling neighborhood of previous maps, a player with speed or invisiblity shouldn't have an issue avoiding police if they know what they're doing.

 

[Spalw]

Cops haven't been something I have personally focused on developing, so I haven't said anything yet, but I wanted to just give my opinion about two things you have said. I also don't really want to just repeat what Dakota has said, as his response was somewhat conclusive.

I don't think it matters too much since there's not a huge skillcap on right clicking someone, ofc I know there are full braindead bot cops that do nothing but they're still annoying since it's still 1 lucky right click for them to fuck you. At least with fewer cops we have a better chance of avoiding them with different timezones and it's actually people who wanna be a cop and not just clowns who are too lazy to farm. It also benefits the people that actually want to be cops since they have a lot more potential to make money. Today when I was going around spawn there was legit 8 cops like wtf.

I absolutely disagree that there is a low skill-cap to being a cop - even more so with the new abilities. There have always been standout cops that were incredibly skilled, more so than anyone else during any given map.

Let's pretend I agree with you - there isn't exactly a high skill cap on doing /spawn and running to a building to sell either. There has to be a balance there, and I think there already is, mostly due to the design of the selling regions and npcs.

Yeah I mean that was just a random idea but the general thought process was just to give them something else to keep them entertained so at least during dead time zones we could potentially invis sell while they do other shit instead of waiting around spawn just in case someone was selling.

I think that you should take advantage of the new cop system (the fact that you only get reset to the prestige that you enroll) and play as a cop. I assume that a lot of the issues you have raised are a lack of understanding what it's like, just from you not having played as a cop.

 

[Tzunami_]

A little off topic, but out of curiosity: if you enroll as cop when master prestige, do you stay master prestige when you resign? What rank would it boot you back to?

 

[Dakotaa]

A little off topic, but out of curiosity: if you enroll as cop when master prestige, do you stay master prestige when you resign? What rank would it boot you back to?

Junky Master Prestige

 

[Miss_Leon]

I think cops shouldn't have the ability to get a mount because it will give people more of a chance to sell instead of a ridiculously fast cop chasing you which is unfair if you don't have a mount. As a cop, I can say that it is still possible to get someone who is on a mount.

1) Don't spawn camp, camp near dealers because anyone on a mount selling will have to get off to sell.
2) Hide in places that are close to the route that the seller takes. When Cod and Glucose sell I examine their route and hide among it so when they come again I can get them

A cop with a mount can easily get an invis with speed II and is quite unfair to the one selling

 

[Inexity]

I think cops shouldn't have the ability to get a mount because it will give people more of a chance to sell instead of a ridiculously fast cop chasing you which is unfair if you don't have a mount. As a cop, I can say that it is still possible to get someone who is on a mount.

1) Don't spawn camp, camp near dealers because anyone on a mount selling will have to get off to sell.
2) Hide in places that are close to the route that the seller takes. When Cod and Glucose sell I examine their route and hide among it so when they come again I can get them

A cop with a mount can easily get an invis with speed II and is quite unfair to the one selling

Both cops and druggies need to spend $250,000 to rent a mount that only lasts for an hour. Sneaky players can bait police on horses and walk away undetected when invisible. Horses are also rentable as druggies for the same amount, although it is actually inadvisable for druggies to use horses, as they can be perpetually chased, since their location is revealed. It is definitely possible to get someone on a mount, and there are strategies druggies have at their disposal to stop cop-horses. (i.e: Making them chase/frisk non-drug wielding mounts)

"1) Don't spawn camp, camp near dealers because anyone on a mount selling will have to get off to sell."

You'd get more by simply watching spawn with the horse. Too many drug dealers to watch.

2) Hide in places that are close to the route that the seller takes. When Cod and Glucose sell I examine their route and hide among it so when they come again I can get them

Good strategy, but it'll only work for so long.

 

[Tzunami_]

Both cops and druggies need to spend $250,000 to rent a mount that only lasts for an hour. Sneaky players can bait police on horses and walk away undetected when invisible. Horses are also rentable as druggies for the same amount, although it is actually inadvisable for druggies to use horses, as they can be perpetually chased, since their location is revealed. It is definitely possible to get someone on a mount, and there are strategies druggies have at their disposal to stop cop-horses. (i.e: Making them chase/frisk non-drug wielding mounts)
.

1.) You are admitting (as a top cop) that getting a horse as a druggie is a bad strat and doesn't work well. Although the mounts are free for everyone the only people it's actually good for are the cops, proving it is a broken system. Horses on cops is amazing, horses on druggies is a disadvantage.

2.) Although it is theoretically possible to get people to run blank runs on horses to pull to cops away from spawn, this is much, much harder to actually execute in game. Finding people to do this is very difficult, not only do you need to pay the mount for them, you need to hire them for an hour. Usually during 2x booster people want to be selling their own drugs, not running dry runs. Think about it for a minute, if the richest players on the server can't do this, who else will? Even if you find someone, it may work for a few runs, but cops like yourself will quickly catch on and stop taking the bait. During and hour booster you need it to work for 30 runs, not 3.


I don't think mounts should be banned for cops, that would make selling to easy. However, mounts definitely need to be nerfed, they are way to strong as it is right now. Two cops with mounts hovering around spawn building makes it extremely difficult to just get out of spawn area, even with speed 2 invis. The fact that you made about 4 mil in hour yesterday with the mounts proves this point. Cops should not be making that kind of money in one hour.

 

[Inexity]

1.) You are admitting (as a top cop) that getting a horse as a druggie is a bad strat and doesn't work well. Although the mounts are free for everyone the only people it's actually good for are the cops, proving it is a broken system. Horses on cops is amazing, horses on druggies is a disadvantage.

2.) Although it is theoretically possible to get people to run blank runs on horses to pull to cops away from spawn, this is much, much harder to actually execute in game. Finding people to do this is very difficult, not only do you need to pay the mount for them, you need to hire them for an hour. Usually during 2x booster people want to be selling their own drugs, not running dry runs. Think about it for a minute, if the richest players on the server can't do this, who else will? Even if you find someone, it may work for a few runs, but cops like yourself will quickly catch on and stop taking the bait. During and hour booster you need it to work for 30 runs, not 3.


I don't think mounts should be banned for cops, that would make selling to easy. However, mounts definitely need to be nerfed, they are way to strong as it is right now. Two cops with mounts hovering around spawn building makes it extremely difficult to just get out of spawn area, even with speed 2 invis. The fact that you made about 4 mil in hour yesterday with the mounts proves this point. Cops should not be making that kind of money in one hour.

"You are admitting (as a top cop) that getting a horse as a druggie is a bad strat and doesn't work well. Although the mounts are free for everyone the only people it's actually good for are the cops, proving it is a broken system. Horses on cops is amazing, horses on druggies is a disadvantage."

Does speed II work on horses? If so, then junkies have an advantage with them. If not, why should cops not be as fast as the druggies on horses? Being slower would mean druggies would outrun them and make it to dealers no problem. Imagine this as a rock-paper-scissors mentality where horses are rock for both players. Only time horse-druggies are caught is when they make a mistake and let the cop catch up to them. Other then that, it's an equal-speed chase. Visibility Potion on foot is one of the ways to counter horse-cops.

"Although it is theoretically possible to get people to run blank runs on horses to pull to cops away from spawn, this is much, much harder to actually execute in game. Finding people to do this is very difficult, not only do you need to pay the mount for them, you need to hire them for an hour." Just an idea. Another would be waiting for the cop to chase after someone else, then running yourself. I'm pointing out there are plenty of options druggies have to fight against a horse.

"I don't think mounts should be banned for cops, that would make selling to easy. However, mounts definitely need to be nerfed, they are way to strong as it is right now. Two cops with mounts hovering around spawn building makes it extremely difficult to just get out of spawn area, even with speed 2 invis. "

Agreed. Kind of unfair if cops can cover their only exit point (that I'm aware of.)

 

[Spalw]

Guys.

Horses have been a thing for the last two years. We didn’t have them at the start of the map due to technical issues.

We made a fundamental change to them this year - we made it so that it is less of a “the rich get richer” mechanic. Horses are significantly easier to access than before, making them much more fair than previous iterations.

They are also a lot less useful, due to the verticality of the selling area this map.

I really do not understand the controversy.

 

[Miss_Leon]

Just an idea, Maybe have a few more exit points on spawn, Instead of the stand running out the front. Introduce tunnel systems under spawn, which can either be accessible for everyone or a pay per hour thing like mules (But not too expensive), Also maybe the ability to jump from different floors of spawn. so a druggie can exit the spawn building from the top rather than the bottom giving them a slight advantage as they're not seen leaving the spawn, But can still be seen running the dealer.

The tunnel systems can be 4-8 blocks underground so nametag is still visible to cops, But I do understand with invis this may be to op but, they still have to go to the dealers and sell. maybe allow cops to access the exit points of the tunnels so maybe we can camp some of the tunnels.

So maybe an underground tunnel system which can be either a rank thing so there is a smuggler tunnel or drug baron tunnel or just a payment system.

As remembered from other maps maybe reintroduce a sewer system that is accessible by players at spawn and allows them to get close to the dealer. Cops will be able to access this not making it too op and not too far underground so nametags are still fairly visible to cops. But again there's a problem with invisible players but again they have to still get to the dealer. as it wouldn't be a direct route to the dealer maybe just outside of the slums area so cops will still see when they go to sell

I am aware this would take a while to fully set it if you do implement this but I just think it is a good idea

I have made a quick map on paint to show how this may work:

The Grower Tunnel will run underneath the Mule Tunnel
The Prestige VIII Tunnel will run underneath the Chemist Tunnel
The Master Prestige Tunnel will run under the RASTA Tunnel and the Grower Tunnel

 

[Tzunami_]

Guys.

They are also a lot less useful, due to the verticality of the selling area this map.

.

Spawn doesn't get vertical until the slums (unless you count rail, but horses can easily go on raid). People aren't running horses around the slums, they are guarding the spawn building. Because it takes 3 seconds to get around to the other side of spawn building, 1 or 2 cops with horses are able to guard all entrances almost all of the time. Even if they are are on the other side of spawn when you exit spawn building, they can still easily catch you. Having a particle pack nullifies invis allowing them to catch way more than they should be. Once you get out of the spawn area it is fine and all is fair, the problem is when multiple cops with mounts hover around the spawn building, making it to difficult to leave.

Leon's idea of adding a tunnel would be an easy fix for this. The tunnel shouldn't lead directly to the slums, that would be to easy, but rather somewhere such as the underground tunnel in front of the spawn building. This way players can at least get past the horse cops and then run to the slums. It would also make sense because it would add another layer to the part of spawn with no verticality.

 

[Spalw]

Personally, I don’t see that there’s is an issue that requires fixing.

Horses are, if anything, less powerful than last map. Selling is a huge part of the server, there are plenty of things you can do to decrease the chances of you getting caught.

 

[SlimShady_69]

0nce the map gets older the cops will thin out. yes cops eventually get smarter and learn to camp certain places and learn the slums layout well, as well as the various entrances, but at the same time their ranks get slimmer. however there is a problem with hidden pathways, since now cops litreally only rent horses on boosters now, yes its difficult for horses to traverse the slums but its getting to the slums in the first place when theres like 3 horse cops on is the difficult part. as far as i know of theres the 4 entrances out of spawn whereas in previous maps there usually was one secret entrance out of spawn or a clever way out that only experienced cops knew where to go for; but with 3 horse cops on if they just run around spawn they cover all exits and even if your invis they only need to see a couple bubbles and just spam right click because they can catch up to you instantly. but i feel this issue will be resolved with eventually less cops, and maybe more ways of getting to the dealer.

basically, it doesn't matter that slums don't favor horses because theres only 4 very obvious entrances out of spawn, and if you cant get past that, you cant sell. but this problem will solve itself with the map calming down, so less players selling giving less incentive for cops to be cops basically, and a lot of these cops who just run around spawn like morons or maybe camp a couple ledges will quit as well. this will weed out the bad cops, and make getting out of spawn more challenging but in a chase kind of way, not in a dumb luck kind of way which is what was intended. i think we should just give it time